Since you are interested in whale consciousness, AI, and are a fan of Ted Chiang, you also need to check out Adam Nathan’s remarkable serialized story Moby. The first part is here, and you can use that to get to all the rest of it:
I was just having this conversation with my best friend about how much I can’t stand when some form of the argument that humans are unique among animals (read: superior) because of how our minds work appears—which means I’m annoyed a lot, because it’s everywhere! It’s based on so many arrogant assumptions, some of which have been disproven. Carl Safina’s Beyond Words really articulated this idea beautifully and is one of my favorite books.
I love love that you’re exploring that here, and I’m glad to have found your substack. Thanks for the wonderful take!
Safina is definitely one of those researchers who reminds us that we are one species among many. It's such an interesting discussion. Even if we grant that we are unique, we have to admit that other species are unique too, in their own way. And the more we look closely at animal behavior, the more we see reflections of ourselves, distorted, maybe, or different in degree, but some relatability nonetheless.
What an absolute delight! I thoroughly enjoyed this post.
I have questions! Language has always fascinated me. For a long time, the prevailing claim was that humans have language, while non-human animals merely communicate - sometimes very sophisticatedly, but not in a way that constitutes true language. However, it seems views might be changing on this front.
In biology, is there a clear definition of what differentiates language from communication? Or, like many other biological concepts, is language now viewed more as a continuum rather than a binary distinction? Are the differences between human and animal communication ones of degree or of kind?
Communication is seen much broader than just language, which (in non-human animals) is not really that well-defined, it's usually more 'something that looks sufficiently like human language'. Most biologists would be more comfortable to talk about vocalizations or proto-language, because (so far) human language seems to have some unique components. I'm not a linguist, so I'll probably forget important ones, but human language is double-patterned – meaningless sound components are combined into meaningful phonemes and words. Human language is also complex, open-ended, and productive (we can intentionally talk about abstract things). There are some other components, like discreteness and displacement, but the real question, as you point out, is whether this is about differences in degree or kind. There are some studies in songbirds that seem to show limited double patterning, but not everyone agrees. And I am very curious about the full extent of whale song complexity.
Thanks Gunnar, this is fascinating. I could imagine the evolutionary advantage of language is hotly debated. But, I suspect, the answer to such questions might hold the key to the debate between differences in degree or kind.
Since you are interested in whale consciousness, AI, and are a fan of Ted Chiang, you also need to check out Adam Nathan’s remarkable serialized story Moby. The first part is here, and you can use that to get to all the rest of it:
https://www.adamnathan.com/p/5-moby-june-2024-part-i
Ooh, that looks interesting. Thanks!
I was just having this conversation with my best friend about how much I can’t stand when some form of the argument that humans are unique among animals (read: superior) because of how our minds work appears—which means I’m annoyed a lot, because it’s everywhere! It’s based on so many arrogant assumptions, some of which have been disproven. Carl Safina’s Beyond Words really articulated this idea beautifully and is one of my favorite books.
I love love that you’re exploring that here, and I’m glad to have found your substack. Thanks for the wonderful take!
Thank you, Danielle! What an amazing comment.
Safina is definitely one of those researchers who reminds us that we are one species among many. It's such an interesting discussion. Even if we grant that we are unique, we have to admit that other species are unique too, in their own way. And the more we look closely at animal behavior, the more we see reflections of ourselves, distorted, maybe, or different in degree, but some relatability nonetheless.
(Also, thanks for subscribing 😉)
Happy to be here! PS I work in biotech communication too and have a background in anthropology, so lots of overlap!
Oh, that's interesting! What are the odds, huh?
What an absolute delight! I thoroughly enjoyed this post.
I have questions! Language has always fascinated me. For a long time, the prevailing claim was that humans have language, while non-human animals merely communicate - sometimes very sophisticatedly, but not in a way that constitutes true language. However, it seems views might be changing on this front.
In biology, is there a clear definition of what differentiates language from communication? Or, like many other biological concepts, is language now viewed more as a continuum rather than a binary distinction? Are the differences between human and animal communication ones of degree or of kind?
Thank you, Suzi!
Communication is seen much broader than just language, which (in non-human animals) is not really that well-defined, it's usually more 'something that looks sufficiently like human language'. Most biologists would be more comfortable to talk about vocalizations or proto-language, because (so far) human language seems to have some unique components. I'm not a linguist, so I'll probably forget important ones, but human language is double-patterned – meaningless sound components are combined into meaningful phonemes and words. Human language is also complex, open-ended, and productive (we can intentionally talk about abstract things). There are some other components, like discreteness and displacement, but the real question, as you point out, is whether this is about differences in degree or kind. There are some studies in songbirds that seem to show limited double patterning, but not everyone agrees. And I am very curious about the full extent of whale song complexity.
Thanks Gunnar, this is fascinating. I could imagine the evolutionary advantage of language is hotly debated. But, I suspect, the answer to such questions might hold the key to the debate between differences in degree or kind.
Plenty of hypotheses; little consensus ;).
It's always the way. I guess that's what makes it so interesting.